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As the competition for the 2024 Academy Awards intensifies, Martin Scorsese’s sweeping film Killers of the Flower Moon, based on David Grann’s 2017 nonfiction book of the same title, is widely considered a top contender for the most prestigious awards. Last month, the drama depicting the true story of the Osage murders, orchestrated by white men seeking to claim the valuable oil-rich land of Indigenous people in early 20th-century Oklahoma, was ranked as the best film of 2023 by Sight and Sound’s poll. In the lead-up to Christmas, Awards Daily predicted that Killers of the Flower Moon would be a strong contender for “best picture”, while Variety speculated that Scorsese and actor Lily Gladstone would likely be nominated for Oscars, and that leading man Leonardo DiCaprio (who was first nominated in 1994 for What’s Eating Gilbert Grape and won in 2016 for The Revenant) was on track to receive his eighth nomination.
As awards season approaches, it is not surprising to see DiCaprio and Gladstone hitting the campaign trail to discuss their film. Due to the actors’ strike, they were unable to promote the movie when it was released in the autumn, but now they have the opportunity. While DiCaprio is known for his reluctance to do press interviews, he seems eager to support rising star Gladstone, who has a lot to say about the film. When asked for a place to put the recording device, DiCaprio playfully acts out an exaggerated scene of moving furniture before finally sitting back on the sofa with Gladstone, letting her take the lead.
Gladstone comments on the delayed release of this story, which delves into themes of love, death, and betrayal. The narrative follows Ernest Burkhart (DiCaprio), a white man who marries Mollie Kyle (Gladstone), an Osage woman, in order to gain control of her family’s oil rights. Against a backdrop of murder and exploitation, the Osage community had kept quiet about the events for a significant amount of time, as it was a recent and painful experience. However, with the publication of David Grann’s book, old wounds were reopened, but it was necessary for the healing process to begin. Unfortunately, the book is not included in Oklahoma’s public school curriculum due to fear from teachers. Therefore, the release of this film is crucial in providing a representation of history and connecting with audiences. It is a long-awaited moment for representation.
Gladstone, who was raised on the Blackfeet Nation reservation and has previously acted in films such as Kelly Reichardt’s Certain Women and First Cow, believes that the key to achieving true representation lies in the involvement of members from the Osage Nation in the development of the film and the presence of Indigenous actors on screen. She sees the casting and production of Killers of the Flower Moon as a pivotal moment in Hollywood, with the potential to bring about change in the industry.
The speaker expresses optimism about the future of representation for Native people in the entertainment industry. They contrast this with the harmful portrayal of Indigenous people in classic westerns, where they were often depicted as violent savages. They note the absence of Indigenous leading ladies and romantic stories in Hollywood’s history, making the inclusion of an Indigenous cast in “Killers of the Flower Moon” a restorative experience. The involvement of Osage members in the film’s production is highlighted as a significant factor in shaping its on-screen representation. The speaker hopes that this will lead to a positive shift in how Hollywood engages with communities going forward.
I inquire with DiCaprio about his involvement in revising the screenplay for Killers of the Flower Moon, which he has been attentively listening to Gladstone discuss without interruption. He explains that the process was lengthy, starting with obtaining the rights to the book, which was particularly thrilling for him due to its portrayal of a forgotten part of American history. As someone who is actively involved in environmental activism, DiCaprio has witnessed similar situations involving Indigenous communities facing threats from oil, drilling, and mining companies. The story depicted in the film is not just a century-old issue, but one that is still happening all over the world.
Director Scorsese, who was equally intrigued by the “incredible narrative”, began working on a screenplay based on Grann’s book, which primarily delves into the “genesis of the FBI”. The story also centers around Thomas Bruce White Sr, the law enforcement officer who led the investigation of the Osage murders. Initially, this role was intended for DiCaprio, but after a year or two of development, it became clear during read-throughs that there was a lack of emotional connection. Before Lily entered the picture, there was a roundtable discussion where the team realized that while the story was a gripping whodunit in the style of Hitchcock, they were not interested in simply following a plot.
“We began to examine the interactions between Mollie and Ernest and discovered that it was the essence of the story. This also allowed us to delve deeper into the Osage culture and community, causing us to discard the previous script and begin again. Once we had a new draft, heavily influenced by films such as A Place in the Sun and The Heiress – a twisted, unconventional love story – Marty was invited by the Osage to truly listen to their narrative and perspective of events. With the addition of Lily, the entire story began to take on a completely different structure.”
How did Scorsese specifically demonstrate deeper listening to the Osage community?
Gladstone responds that Osage extended the invitation. Since the book was published, the community of Gray Horse in Osage County has been interested in the story and potential film adaptation. When it became clear that the project was moving forward with Leonardo DiCaprio and Martin Scorsese, the community reached out to invite them for dinner and an open discussion about their thoughts and concerns regarding the adaptation. Scorsese accepted this invitation.
Despite incorporating Osage language and culture, Killers of the Flower Moon still received a significant amount of criticism. Devery Jacobs, a Canadian Indigenous actor known for her role in Reservation Dogs, expressed her disappointment with the film on social media, describing it as “painful, grueling, and unnecessarily graphic”. She also praised the performances of Indigenous actors in the film, but questioned whether this was the representation that was truly needed after a century of negative portrayals of Indigenous communities in film.
Despite putting in their best effort, it appears that the film-makers were unable to satisfy everyone.
Gladstone expresses that not everyone will appreciate art, but what matters most to him is that the Osage community is happy with it. After speaking with members of the tribe, both those involved in the film and not, he has received a lot of support. Former chief Jim Gray initially opposed the film, but after watching it, he publicly praised it on Twitter. This meant a lot to Gladstone as he valued Gray’s opinion. Some of his closest friends who were not part of the film were initially skeptical and avoided him, but now they have become fans of it. However, there may still be those in the Osage Nation who have mixed feelings about the film, but overall there is a strong sense of support and protectiveness towards it.
In its finished form, Killers of the Flower Moon centres on a relationship that is clearly abusive – a white incomer marrying into an Indigenous community in order to inherit and steal the oil money that has made their land wealthy. Yet on screen, DiCaprio and Gladstone conjure a sense of intimacy between Ernest and Mollie that is at odds with that entirely exploitative narrative, hinting at something more tender beneath the surface. How would the actors characterise Ernest and Mollie’s relationship?
DiCaprio reflects, as his character serves as the compliant nephew of Robert De Niro’s slick and deceitful mastermind, William King Hale. Hale played a key role in the atrocities committed against the Osage people. “It’s intriguing,” DiCaprio ponders. “The Mollie-Ernest relationship was almost unimaginable for a writer. Yes, it was a deeply abusive dynamic. But was there a genuine connection? In Oklahoma, there was an environment where the dominant white population took over land that belonged to Indigenous people. However, after speaking with members of the community, we learned that while Hale has been forgotten and omitted from history due to his evil actions, Ernest was different. He was Hale’s manipulated nephew. He is certainly responsible for his actions. But we kept hearing about a true bond and bond between Ernest and Mollie – something real.”
I propose that the feeling of being connected is essential for Scorsese’s film to be engaging. Without it, viewers may have felt disconnected from the deceptive and twisted events. If the entire plot is simply a plan for murder, it becomes difficult to emotionally invest in it.
DiCaprio confirms, “That’s correct! And it was evident. Despite the trial, Mollie and Ernest were frequently spotted driving together in Fairfax. In essence, it seems unlikely that their relationship could have lasted as long as it did without a genuine connection.”
According to Gladstone, there were many Caucasian men who married Osage women, and vice versa. However, they never felt the need to learn each other’s language. Ernest, who was illiterate and not highly educated, was one of these men. Surprisingly, he picked up the Osage language and spoke it with his family and children. DiCaprio adds with a laugh, “By any means.” Ernest found a sense of acceptance and belonging in his marriage to an Osage family, as many others do when marrying into Native American communities. He also had his own cultural background, which could be seen as a dominant patriarchal force.
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The topic of activism and environmentalism arises in your conversation – a topic that is important to both of you. While Gladstone recently stated that “acting is my activism”, DiCaprio has gained fame as an advocate for the environment. In a survey conducted by the Hollywood firm, the National Research Group, involving 1,500 individuals aged 18-64, DiCaprio was chosen as the most trusted public figure or celebrity in terms of sustainability, surpassing Greta Thunberg, Al Gore, Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson, and President Joe Biden.
DiCaprio acknowledges that he has been actively involved in this issue for a substantial amount of time. He has come to the realization that there is a widespread belief, perpetuated by both governments and the private sector, that the responsibility for addressing climate change falls solely on individuals. While individuals do have a role to play, DiCaprio believes that governments also need to make policy changes and be held accountable for their contributions to global emissions. The efforts of organizations like Cops aim to achieve this. However, there is still a need for technological advancements, such as carbon sequestration and AI supercomputers, to provide solutions. This is an enormous undertaking for humanity and has significant implications for future generations and all life on Earth. While some may argue that the Earth will survive, DiCaprio raises an important question about the quality of life on an environmentally damaged planet.
My current priority is to address the question: “How can we preserve the natural environment?” This involves ensuring the well-being of those who care for the land, including local communities and Indigenous peoples who have been doing so for centuries. My foundation’s main focus is now on saving nature by safeguarding and directing all funds to Indigenous groups on the ground. This means empowering local communities to protect these areas instead of exploiting them for resources, and defending them against large corporations that seek to clear the land for cattle farming, soy or palm oil production. Through these efforts, we can also protect the diverse range of species that inhabit these areas.
Gladstone commented that regardless of political beliefs, they greatly admire Leo’s activism for recognizing the importance of human beings and grassroots efforts. Throughout history, people have always been influenced by the decisions of their governing body. No matter how the political climate shifts, there will always be a grassroots resistance at the human level. This resistance will continue to include Indigenous groups and allies who prioritize taking care of the Earth and their communities, despite differing political views. This movement focuses on directly addressing the needs of the people and bypassing government actions.
Considering De Niro’s outspokenness regarding the danger that Donald Trump poses to the United States and the world, what is their level of concern or hopefulness regarding the upcoming American election?
Leonardo DiCaprio states that his answer will be a lengthy one. He deliberately avoids making any controversial statements about Trump, unlike his co-star. DiCaprio expresses uncertainty about the future direction of the country. He observes an increasing divide on various matters within the United States. When it comes to environmental issues, DiCaprio aligns himself with a particular political party that supports scientific research and findings, which he also believes in. He strongly believes in the validity of science.
I have a distinct memory of working on a film called Before the Flood where I had the opportunity to speak with a Nasa scientist. It was the first time I had ever been given a map of Earth and the scientist pointed out the equatorial line, explaining that this was close to where I live in Los Angeles. This conversation took place seven years ago. The scientist warned me that as the Earth continues to warm, we will start to see an increase in fires, drought, and loss of trees due to lack of resistance. Sure enough, a few years later, we began hearing about massive forest fires and now it has become a regular occurrence. It’s disheartening to see that all the predictions made by scientists are coming true and yet there is one political party that consistently denies the findings of the scientific community and does not prioritize protecting our climate.
Can we shift our focus from the pressing issue of the climate crisis and talk about something more lighthearted? DiCaprio jokingly suggests discussing a trivial topic like our favorite colors. However, I am curious about how the actors handled their strike.
After a prolonged period of quiet, Gladstone finally speaks up.
“It was frustrating not being able to speak about the film,” she expresses with exhaustion. “To truly represent it out there. However, I must mention that there was a bright side to it, which I hope sets a new standard for films of this nature. Because the actors were unable to speak, it was a wonderful opportunity to step back and allow the Osage people to take the spotlight and speak about it first. I always try to find the silver lining in things. It could be a strength or a weakness of my character. But it was truly inspiring. As actors, we pour our heart and soul into our characters and the story. There is always a discussion about what happens when the film is completed. Does it still belong to us or do we give it back to the audience? In this process of handing over our art to the audience, especially to the Osage people, it felt right to hear their voices first.”
Is DiCaprio experiencing the same feelings?
“Marty has been campaigning on our behalf since we couldn’t openly discuss it,” he responds. “But to be honest, I was hoping Lily could have a platform to share her thoughts on this movie. It’s been enlightening to hear her perspective and its significance. As for the actors’ strike, no one was working! But now, we can finally resume work and I’m relieved it’s all resolved.”
Is DiCaprio ever affected by the media’s fascination with his personal life?
When it comes to my personal life, my answer is straightforward. I entered the entertainment industry at a young age because I felt a strong desire to do so. It’s ironic because I grew up in Hollywood, and people often assume it was easy for me to get into the industry. However, I faced rejection when I attempted to become an actor multiple times. Finally, at 12 or 13 years old, an agent gave me a chance, and it has felt like winning the lottery ever since. To be honest, I would have been content with any type of acting job, whether it be commercials or television.
“I had the chance to work on This Boy’s Life with Robert De Niro. After watching his performances, I recognized his talent as an actor and made a promise to myself not to waste this opportunity. As a result, many other aspects come along with it, such as losing my privacy. However, I realize that there are people dealing with much more difficult situations than having their personal life exposed to the public. It’s just one of the consequences that come with my job, and I am grateful for the opportunity to do what I love. Complaining about it would be ungrateful, so I have learned to accept and adapt to it.”
We’re running out of time and I have one final question for both of them: what do you admire most about the other? DiCaprio looks at Gladstone, with a clear determination for her to answer first.
“I have mentioned it multiple times,” she states. “And it truly is the highest form of praise I can give someone. He is a true nerd! He becomes fully immersed in everything he is passionate about. And he cares deeply about it. He may be modest about it, but it is fascinating and impressive to witness his enthusiasm and dedication towards things.”
What is the most appealing aspect of Lily, Leonardo?
“I have many thoughts I could share,” he grins, “but I believe she is a genuinely good person. I observe small details in people and from what I’ve seen, she is dedicated to activism and makes a positive impact. She is also wonderful to her family and community. She has a deep understanding of her own history. Overall, I’ve noticed that she consistently treats others with kindness and grace.”
Gladstone appears to be sincerely touched. “Thank you,” she whispers.
And since it was mentioned, what is your preferred color?
Gladstone chuckles as he alternates between green and blue.
And you, Leonardo?
“Blue.”
“May I inquire something?” Lily asks him. “Is blue your preferred color due to… Captain Planet?”
“I have always loved the color blue,” DiCaprio smiles. “Maybe it’s because I have always been a boy.”
They both burst into laughter.
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The film “Killers of the Flower Moon” will be released for streaming on Apple TV+ on January 12th.
Source: theguardian.com
